Friday, September 6, 2024

Posting/Commenting Issues Solved.....and One for Phil.....

 By dumping Firefox. I've been using Firefox since Netscape morphed into it, and I've been very content until lately. It started refusing to post comments on any Blogger site due to "Cross-Site Tracking Cookies", and I couldn't even reply on my own blog. It was also running slow, and randomly locking up, sometimes tying up so many System Resources that it was very difficult to use the mouse and keyboard.

So now I've switched over to Falkon, a more "lightweight" browser. And in the middle of this, I did a major OS update, and forgot to plug the PC into the wired network. BAM! Lost my wireless connection, and spent a couple of days getting that squared away. I'd really rather have a wired connection to the router, as I was getting 750MB download speeds with very low latency (no lag monster), and I max out at 25MB on the 2.4GHz wireless link, and 75MB on the 5GHz wireless link. I'll have to check the specs on our 7 year old router, and my equally old wireless adapter and see where the bottleneck is.

And as usual for this time of year, I'm really busy. I have a ton of year-old Didn't Get Done things to take care of, and after all the ups and downs and recovery time of last year I'm making up for it as best I can. Between watching a grandson or two, cutting up a bunch of firewood, yardwork, attending family gatherings, a HoneyDew list that never ends, and working on my own projects.

Repairs on my friend's Fisher SR-2010 are continuing at a slow pace. After finding capacitors in the Amplifier section that were running Danger Close to their maximum ratings I started going through the schematic looking for others, and found half-a-dozen more "At Risk" capacitors, so I'm going to change them, too. They're "$2 Parts that cost $100 to fix", so out they go!

And here's the one for Phil I promised.....


Nice clean, shiny, NEW water pump, timing belt, tensioner, and spring. And everything around them is getting a good scrub, and paint touch-up where required.

I do love working with nice, clean, shiny stuff. Getting here is a lot of tedious, time-consuming work, but oh so worth it.

Enjoy your weekend, use your time wisely, and always stay in Condition Yellow. I have a feeling things might get a bit spicy in the next few months.....I just wonder how BIG a cheat The Evil Ones are planning to pull off come November.......

Tuesday, August 27, 2024

Posting and Commenting Issues....

 Awwwww.....CRUD!

Having trouble posting comments on other blogs, and even my own blog. It appears to be a setting in Firefox that blocks "Cross-Site Cookies", which is how Blogger remembers who you are on different pages.

So bear with me if my comments don't appear to new posts. If it's a WordPress blog, I can comment, but Blogger won't allow me. Really frustrating, and I'm working the problem.

Friday, August 23, 2024

Still Here, Still Busy!

"Busy As A........" pick your favorite term......

I really should post more often, considering the medical issues I had all last year. 

Anywhoo.....

Between having the grandsons twice a week, with an overnight on Friday or Saturday, doing yard work, working on my friend's Fisher SR-2010, and banging away on My Old Toyota, I haven't the time, or inclination, to do much posting.

If I could get maybe two per cent of the energy the little ones have, I could get more done.....

Enjoy the weekend, check your six, and God Bless y'all...


Sunday, August 4, 2024

Trouble In The Skies?

 Every so often when I'm checking my PiAware ADSB receiver/display I'll notice an aircraft with a flight path that catches my eye. I watched all the aerial tankers and observation aircraft during the recent Alexander Mountain fire. And I see an occasional EC-135 Rivet Joint from Offutt AFB on a training flight.

This American Airlines flight originated at DFW, and was supposed to land in Eagle, Colorado, a fair bit Northwest of us.


Somewhere on his path he diverted to Denver. He enters an oval "Race Track" pattern, and then is directed to a longer, narrower Race Track, which he orbited several times. He then heads out quite a ways to the Northwest, turns and heads back to Denver, gets in the pattern, and lands. 

Kinda looks like something went wrong. Medical Emergency, or Aircraft problems? He didn't squawk 7700, so it wasn't a MAYDAY situation.

If you hear anything about AA1245, let me know.

Been 95+ and muggy the last several days. Yesterday and today's weather Radar showed some thunderstorm activity in the immediate area, and today it looked significant. We didn't even get any sprinkles here, but as long as it rained in the burn area, I'm good with it.

Got all the lamps, the electrolytic capacitors, and the burned resistors changed out in the Fisher RS-2010, and as soon as I figure out a bunch of components NOT on the schematic or parts list are doing, I'll annotate my schematics, and carry on.

Stay hydrated, my friends, and always keep the old noggin on a swivel...

Friday, August 2, 2024

More on the Alexander Mountain Fire

 It's up over 9,000 acres now, about 14.5 miles in area, and roughly 8% contained.

Compared to Fort Collins, it's big.


But not nearly as big as the Cameron Peak fire in 2020, which was 208,000 acres.


My "PiAware" setup is working perfectly, allowing me to see where the air traffic for the fire is headed.

Prayers for the Firefights and flight crews.


Tuesday, July 30, 2024

Big Fire Near Masonville, CO

 It was first reported at 1100 yesterday. It's currently about 1,000 Acres, and 0% contained. USDA Forest Service has taken over, and Larimer County Fire, and probably everybody they can round up, are actively fighting it. I've been hearing the water tankers going to/from Horsetooth Reservoir, which has been closed to boats for two days now, and listening to the radio traffic.

This is the smoke plume as seen on the NWS Radar.


And this is "Scooper 231"'s flight path.


And Scooper 231.

The State of Colorado also has their Pilatus PC-12 up to monitor/coordinate things.


 Nice airplane!


As of 2000 hrs, we have a Turbo Commander orbiting the area....


And "TKR10", which sounds a lot like Tanker10.


And the State of Colorado aircraft is flying an interesting flight path.

 

I have The Greatest Respect for our City, County, and Volunteer Fire Departments here.

 These Crews are out in rugged terrain at 7500', in 100*F heat, wearing a full load-out of gear, breathing smoke, and doing strenuous physical labor.

God Bless Them!



Monday, July 22, 2024

Looks Like Virtual Mirage Got Hit Again

 All I'm getting is a pretty much blank page with the name in the left corner. I never had the "redirect issue" when their router got hacked, but this time it looks like the (maybe?) got to the server.

I predict more Fun-and-Games as these "Interesting Times" continue to roll along.

Day 5 of the left eye cataract surgery is going well. I just about don't need to wear my glasses any longer, at least not for distances of 2" to about 20'. They still help a bit with driving, but the prescription is wrong for my new "IOL" (lens implant) which means waiting another several weeks for things to settle down so they can do an accurate eye exam. 

Still working on the Fisher stereo. Got all the light bulbs changed (finally!) and now I'm working on the bollixed up Main Tuning Capacitor and restringing the dial cord.

From The Supra Files..... 

I'd pulled the under hood insulation pad off several months ago with the intentions of cleaning it, and then recovering it. It was a miserable, disgusting mess on the underside of the hood, as the loosely woven soaked up all the oil vapors, and the fumes from the Olde Skool NON-sealed battery. I had to look for a decent picture of it for the "Before" shot, and then crop, resize, and pump up the detail. This is about the best I could come up with.


The black "scrim" covering was peeling off, and it was covered with soaked-in oil, and caked-on greasy mud.

After I pulled it off, I didn't touch the mess until the other day. I got really tired of looking at all the crud on the backside of the hood, so I cleaned it. This is after about ten hours of scrubbing with Simple Green, water with a squirt of dish washing soap, and then a water rinse and wipe down.

And it still needs some more cleaning, and I'll try to "color correct" the paint a bit. where it's still a little brownish. Some parts will need to be repainted, like the area of the frame that is hidden behind the two "pockets" on the leading edge. They're not down to metal, but the paint is eroded/degraded in the area, and it won't "buff right out".

Hope y'all have good week ahead, and you and your wingman have "No Incidents".

And remember......Never Give Up! Never Surrender!

 

 



Thursday, July 18, 2024

Left Eye Surgery AAR

 Had the lens in my left eye replaced yesterday. All went well, but they didn't put me under as deep before, and the memory is much more vivid than when I had my right eye operated on. The discomfort level was significantly higher than before, so I received extra attention. Turns out there's an abrasion on my left cornea (like a scuffed knee), and every time I blinked, the eyelid rubbing against the abrasion irritated both of them, and it was getting to the Discomfort/Pain Threshold.

Solution? My Doctor installed a contact lens with zero correction to act as a shield. It also helps more of the medicated eye drops stay in place longer, and my eyelid now glides over the scuff with practically zero irritation.

Win-Win!

I also had my 30-day post-op exam for my right eye. All is well there, the cornea has resumed a nice, smooth surface, and I'm about 20/25 with no correction. I can easily go without my glasses for about half the time, but I'll still need some correction. Since I LIKE wearing glasses, this is another Win-Win for me. Mebbe I'll get me some 'o them ball-is-tik glasses I hear folks can get now.....

Light posting for a few days whilst I regain my depth perception, but yowzir....things sure are BRIGHT now!

Have a good weekend, keeps your sensors on alert status, and be cool. I know 'ya can!

Thursday, July 11, 2024

Egad....'Tis a Trifle HOT This Week

 Or for what's remaining of the week. It was 97* today, and is expected to be 100+ through Sunday. The humidity is only 17%, so you step in the shade and it's bearable, but step into the Sun and YOUCH! It's flippin' HOT. It's nice to dry freshly painted parts in, but just running the parts outside to soak in the Sun makes me burst out in sweat.

SOoooooo...... Since it's a nice, balmy, year-round 73* in the basement, I'll be hanging out down there changing light bulbs and restringing the dial cord on the Fisher, and getting it ready to test.

And cleaning more Toyota parts as time, yard-work, SLW, and grand-kids allow.

Right eye is much better, and the left eye gets revamped next Wednesday. I'm pretty sure I'll still need some correction, but at least I can see and READ again.

Thank you, Lord...

Keep hydrated, use sunscreen and wear a big boonie hat!

Wednesday, July 3, 2024

UP 4014 Big Boy Trip, and The Supra Files

 Sunday morning I hopped in my Little Red Truck, and headed up to Tie Siding, Wyoming to meet up with Well Seasoned Fool and watch Union Pacific 4014 cruise past. 

Not much in Tie Siding...

 

Bunch of interesting rocks on the other side of the tracks.


One of the things that always impress me is how quiet it is when just coasting along. We were standing there jabbering away, when all of a sudden, here she comes around the bend in the tracks.


Silently gliding along majestically.


And she's spotless....

And it felt really good to get out and about on a beautiful Sunday morning.

The right eye seems to be better in the morning than the afternoon. I'm still on the eye drops for another 3 weeks, so hopefully it improve to the point that it's the same 24/7.


Work proceeds on the Supra while my "High Resolution Eyes" get back to normal. I can do lots of mundane things, like clean parts and refurbish them. This stuff falls into that category nicely, so I started on the wiring harness. The plastic "Split Loom" tubing they use to protect the wire was crumbling like a 100 year old potato chip, so it was pretty easy to get off. The tape wrap under it was gooey from exposure to oil vapors under the hood, and high temperatures as it was positioned above the radiator, in the channel that runs across the front. It's now been unwrapped, untangled, and 'broken out' of the harness according to it's place and function.



This makes it much easier to clean the wires, add my new wires, rewrap them, and put new split-loom tubing back on.


This is one of the two harnesses I have to refurbish. I haven't even started on this one, which has all the sensor and fuel injector leads in it.


This is tons of hand labor, and a bit frustrating at times, but it's sure gonna look good when I'm finished.

Enjoy Hump Day.....It's all downhill from here!




Friday, June 28, 2024

Cataract Surgery - One Week AAR and The Supra Files

 My right eye has improved steadily since the operation. I saw my Ophthalmologist yesterday, and after the examination he said it progressing normally from the day-after post-op, and will continue to steadily improve. He said I "Flirting with 20/20", and I was surprised how easy it was to read the eye chart with my glasses off. The first couple of days after required me to wear the Terminator-style wrap around DARK glasses they gave me so I wouldn't dazzled by the brightness increase. And WoW, colors really "pop" again.

As of tonight, my right eye is better than the left one, although a bit blurry a few times during the day. I hope the July surgery goes as well as this one did.

I'd post some pix of the Fisher receiver I'm going through, but they'd be boring! I'm working on getting the tuner in shape now, starting with the several mechanical maladies it suffered, like the main shaft falling out of the drive mechanism. Then I restring the dial cord, check a few things, and can proceed to the testing / check-out phase.


Ms Swan is enjoying her time in "Doc's Auto Spa" getting all cleaned up under the hood as I work on things. I finished removing all the intake plumbing on the left side of the engine. I cleaned it of the worst of the crud to make it easier to find and remove things. This gives me greatly improved access to several coolant hoses, the fuel filter and lines, the slave cylinder and flex hose for the clutch, and the starter.

WHEW!

I'm upgrading the alternator-to-battery cable along with the two battery cables to make best use of the new 100 Amp alternator. I've got all the Toyota Electrical Wiring Diagrams manuals, and had a set of the "schematics" laminated so I could flip between them faster, and not have them wear out from use. Since I had the manuals, and had figured them out, I started on the wiring harness containing the new power lead.

The plastic split loom tubing used to cover the wiring harness was disintegrating along its length and needed replacement, so it went in the trash bin, along with the plastic tape used to keep the wire bundle tight. I'll do the re-wrap with a fabric-type tape, and use new split-loom tubing to cover it. This section of wiring lived above the radiator underneath the white cross-piece in front of the engine, and was in a very hot environment.

And being as it's now Early Summer in the Rockies, here's some pix of pretty stuff.

These are by the garage.

More in front of the house.


And this is "Elf City", carefully constructed by two little boys with big imaginations. The parts get cleaned and put away in the Fall, and then brought out and put back together in the Spring. And it's constantly changing. Kinda like a Real World version of SimCity.


Enjoy the coming weekend! No, I didn't watch the "debate". I didn't want to ruin my mood for the weekend!

Check your six, keep your head on a swivel, and never, ever run out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas all at once.



Saturday, June 22, 2024

Still Can't Publish Replies To Comments Here

 ARRRRGH! Every time I try and post a reply to a comment here it gets kicked back with an error message.

I'm pretty this started happening after the last Firefox update. I can reply on other blogs, but not my own. I'll go search the Mozilla forums and see what I find

Really frustrating.

SO.......Thanks everybody for the replies. My right eye is getting better each day. The improvement in brightness and color rendition is amazing. I have to wear some dark "Blue Blocker" glasses when outside, but they fit perfectly over my regular glasses, and I like them.

Hope you all have a pleasant weekend.

Thursday, June 20, 2024

Test Post and Eye Operation AAR

 This to see if I can still publish new posts. As of right now, I can't reply to comments made here. I've been able to comment on other blogs, just not here on this one.

So my son and I went down to the eye center at 0700 yesterday, and I checked-in to have the lens in my right eye replaced. I was surprised at how smoothly things ran, and how swift the actual operation was. They took my vitals, checked my glucose, set up an IV line, and explained everything to me. I commented to the attending Nurse about how I remember as a youngster that having this procedure was quite a Big Deal. He told me that back then it was a three-day hospital stay with sandbags on the recovering eye. Once I was rolled into the OR, they gave me a "Combination of Ingredients" through the IV, and I was out.

This part gets 'interesting'.

Next thing I know, the lights came on, and I felt like I was a nano-sized observer in a tiny vehicle looking through a porthole watching the operation take place on the "other side of the glass". No audio, just the video, strangely distorted as the Doctor performed the operation.

Then the lights went off.

Next I heard someone calling my name, and asking me if I was ready to go home. I came to, was wheeled out to my son's waiting truck, and home we came.

When the patch came off later in the day, I was stunned at how much brighter things were, and how the colors popped. Very blurry, but wow! This morning it was better, but still blurry. Saw the Doctor this afternoon for my 1-day post-op, and he said everything looked fine, and it would get better day-by-day, and I should see definite improvement in the next 48~72 hours.

So eye drops for the next month, and then they do the left eye.

Wednesday, June 19, 2024

Issues With Blogger?

 Having a hard time posting replies and comments on numerous Blogger site.

Anybody else see this?

Monday, June 17, 2024

Stereos and Supras

 Been keeping pretty busy with my never-ending list of projects. BUT....it's good to keep busy in retirement, or your brain and body turn to Jell-O. 

And I don't like Jell-O.

One of the main reasons I've been "running slower" than usual is my vision is deteriorating due to cataracts. I'm going in on Wednesday to have my right eye taken care of, and they'll do the left eye a month later. SLW had this done last year, and sailed right through it. She (and the Doctors) tell me I'll be amazed at how much better I'll be able to see. Right now I'm about 20/100 in the right eye, and 20/40 in the left. I can still do most things, but reading, typing, and detail work have taken a hit the last month. So I figured I owed my "readers" a bigger post than my usual dribblings.

Anywhoo.....

The repair/cleaning of the Fisher RS-2010 is coming along nicely. It took a while to source the incandescent panel and indicator lights, and now I can replace them. This radio was introduced in the Fisher 1978 catalog, and while I don't know the exact year this one was made, most of the indicator lamps look original; Very dark, silvered inside the bulb, and they were all dim. It's been repaired at least once in the past, and some of the repair work wasn't up to (my) standards. It's also a bit different that the Service Manual shows.

Ancient, darkened panel lamp. Not even in a socket! The leads are individually soldered to a wire terminal coming out of the glass envelope. Very time consuming to hunt down proper replacements and put the new ones in.

The other lamps used or the "Function" indication were equally bizarre. They were bigger than "Grain-O-Wheat" lamps, and had wire leads.

 And there's a whole flock of them living behind the front panel. Almost looks like they're nesting.....

The different colored lead wires are from previous repairs. Fisher held the bulbs in the holders using something like rubber cement. The previous repair apparently didn't have any, as some of the bulbs had little strips of electrical tape wrapped around them to wedge them into the holder........duuuuhhhh.....I can't let this out of my shop with these "issues".

And since the Service Manual differs from the "As-Built", I had to make a new diagram of how the dial cord is strung on this unit, and not Go By The Book. And the problem with the tuning being all wonky was that this little bit dropped out of place,


Which caused the shaft on the Main Tuning Capacitor to wobble, and fall out of place as I was checking it.

This pretty much made restringing the dial cord mandatory, along with all the little pulleys and things being gritty, stuck, loose, and other ailments.


 Oh. and then there's this:

What is it? Dunno. Not on the views of the chassis or board pictorials, and if it's on the schematic, it's not designated as being off the main board. I'm going to have to see what it's connected to. I had to pull it loose, as this capacitor is one of the ones running at ~95% of it's rated voltage. 

I'll take my "eye patch" time to do easy stuff on this like finish cleaning some items on it, and then I'll get back on it full-bore. Chasing down the parts on this unit has taken about double the amount of time it usually takes. The capacitors are easy-peasy, and it took some time to find the current replacements for the previous replacements for the obsolete transistors, but tracking down suitable replacements for the lamps was a bit frustrating, as these all run on 8 VAC, a bit unusual for indicator lamps.


Annnnnd.... Work continues on the Supra. I finally got the Intake Runners off the engine, and that makes getting to the starter, fuel filter, fuel hoses, water hoses. and wiring harnesses on that side of the engine much easier. Took a good hour of cleaning greasy mud off that side of the engine before I pulled the starter because the bolts were buried!

The two main battery cables are out , so I can document them and send the info to the place that makes new ones. 

The remaining cable I'm updating in the harness is the one that runs from the alternator output stud to the new junction box I fabbed up to replace the disintegrating original one. I'll get a larger gauge cable with ring lugs from the people doing the others. It's the main junction point between the high-current battery lead to the rest of the car. It's where the two main Fusible Links are located, and was really nasty looking. It's also where the high-current lead to the new fan controller will go. And I'm experimenting a bit to build a "Soft Start" control, rather than slamming a relay closed and whacking my electrical system with a 40 Amp surge as the fans speed up. More on that to follow.

Hope y'all have a good, safe week!

Sunday, June 16, 2024

Happy Father's Day!

 To all the Dad's out there. May you have a peaceful, quiet day.

With coffee!


Still working on my "Mega Post", but it's a bit hard to do with the vision problem. I'm having my right eye operated on this Tuesday, and the the left eye next month.

Tuesday, June 11, 2024

Been Busy....Follow-Up Post Coming Soon To A Browser Near YOU!

 Been a week since last post. Been busy herding grandkids, playing with the dog, yard work, house items, and working on all manner of stuff.

More to come, with pix.....

Sunday, June 2, 2024

Massive Storm East of Colorado

 The Spring/Summer weather is always interesting to watch here. Here in the foothills we're more sheltered than folks living East of here. My son's place in Greeley, about 30 miles Southeast of here, got absolutely hammered a couple of days ago. His backyard flooded, and the water ran into the basement via the back door. He was lucky, other than some trees stripped by hail, he sustained no damage. People in other parts of town got flooded, and there was a fatality.

When I was checking the weather earlier, this storm showed up:

It extends North into South Dakota, and South into Kansas. Sure glad we don't live in the storm's path!


Friday, May 31, 2024

Are We Down To One Box Now?


 This "case" set some unpleasant precedents. Does this mean we get to see Barry's birth cert? Marriage license? Why not?

Thursday, May 23, 2024

WWVB Antenna Damage

 When we first moved here, I was a bit concerned about ice and snow bringing down my antennas. The first few Hams I met laughed and said the WIND would kill my antennas long before I had to worry about ice and snow getting them.

In early April, we had a severe storm system that went through with rain, hail, and very high winds. Wind speeds were excess of 90MPH out on the plains, like where WWV is located. One of the "Triatic Cables" holding the Capacitive Loading Assembly, aka the "Top Hat", failed, and the other eight wires it supports came down

Full article, with lots of pictures, is here at the WWV Amateur Radio Club website.

Thursday, May 16, 2024

Supras and Stereos.....

 The repairs on the Fisher RS-2010 are proceeding, but a bit slower than I expected. The failed transistor is an obsolete part number, so I had to search around and find a proper substitute. Found a replacement, but it turns out those are obsolete, too, so more searching took place. Finally found a suitable, modern transistor, and it's compliment, and ordered 10 of each. I also found numerous electrolytic capacitors that were used AT, or slightly under, their maximum rated voltage. Running a capacitor rated 63 Volts in a 60 Volt circuit is a huge mistake. I'm surprised they haven't failed already. So, parts are (finally) on order, and I'll continue to clean it up as I wait for the parts to arrive. Parts installation and reassembly isn't difficult, and then I can do the alignment of the receiver, and finish it up.

And work continues on the Supra. The front Main Seal was starting to leak, and between the oil, and rubber dust from belt wear, it was real grease pit under the timing cover.

Took a lot of scrubbing, but things are clean now, and I can start putting this section back together.


Next up is to get the intake runners off so I can clean up this side of the engine.


 



Should be pretty nice looking after it's finished.

Tuesday, May 14, 2024

Sixty Years In Amateur Radio

 I just realized that it was 60 years ago this month that I received my first Amateur Radio License.

I'd always been given old electrical things by my neighbors, and was given a few "Old Radios" that would be worth a nice chunk of change these days. Some of them had "other" frequency bands on them labeled as "Short Wave", and by connecting a long piece of wire to the antenna terminal, I was able to hear stations from all over the world. I was hooked!

A grade school friend who I still keep in touch with helped me build my first "Real Radio", a Knight-Kit "Star Roamer" shortwave receiver.

In the Summer of 1964, he and I attended the Novice Class License classes that the local radio club put on, and we both passed our code and theory tests, and were duly licensed by the Federal Communications Commission. In those days, it could take 8~10 weeks to receive your license, and after about six weeks, watching the mailbox became an obsession. My Dad was so proud that he drove me up to Allied Radio Corporation on 100 S. Western Ave in Chicago to get my first Amateur Radio receiver.

It was a Hallicrafters SX-146, and was a 'dream receiver' to a 13 year old kid.


My first transmitter was a "Home Brew" affair built from salvaged radios and TV sets. It had a 6L6 power amplifier, driven by a 6AG7 crystal oscillator, and put about 10 Watts output to the antenna. It was very similar to this circuit, but I was running more voltage to the tubes.


8~10 Watts isn't much power, and my Dad got tired of my whining about it, so he made me a deal. He'd match what I had saved, and when it was enough, we'd go to the Heathkit store and buy a DX-60 transmitter.


My antenna was a simple 40 Meter "Inverted Vee" antenna, one of the many flavors of the ever popular dipole antenna.

At that time, the Novice Class license was good for ONE year, and it was NON renewable. You either upgraded your license, or got out of the hobby. Upgrading to General Class was a Big Deal, as you had to demonstrate your proficiency with Morse Code at 13 words-per-minute and take a comprehensive written test covering the FCC rules, Operating Procedures, and a very Technical section.

But that's a story for another day.


Have a good week, and keep your head on a swivel!


Posting/Commenting Issues Solved.....<i>and One for Phil</i>.....

 By dumping Firefox. I've been using Firefox since Netscape morphed into it, and I've been very content until lately. It started ref...